Coaching Scholastic Athletes (part 2)

In this second episode of "Coaching Scholastic Athletes" we hear from a Canadian soccer player who played for the Cornhuskers of Nebraska  and now plays professionally in Canada for the Ottawa Rapid. Her name is Sadie Waite and she was joined in this episode by her grandfather Jim Waite who has set a scholastic coaching record in Canada. We talk about the differences between the U.S. and Canada from the perspective of an athlete and coach.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to another episode of Hale and the Class Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Hart. Coming to you from my Home Croy of Canada, the court like Chronicles, 2020 First Nations. This is part two of a two episode three. Last week we talked about classic athletes, all of the athletes in the United States. And things are very different in the US. And as I indicated, let's push our focus not only to Canada, but we're doing it in a very different fashion. I am very, very pleased to have with my guest today, David Waite and her grandfather, Jim Waite. And so nothing more from me. Let's talk scholastic athletes from a coaching perspective as well as from an athlete perspective. Well, now that we've heard what NIL is all about, the transfer portal, what it's like to coach athletes who have gone through NIL and the transfer portal and uh the sense of entitlement that we hear coaches talking about. We have a guest here today, a professional athlete in the sport. Is it you do you prefer soccer or football, Sadie?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Soccer for me, but I know many out there with football, but a soccer for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

All right. Well, I want to be correct on that. And Sadie is now a professional soccer player, and she is uh going to tell us about her journey because, of course, she's a Canadian, and things are different in Canada, as we'll talk about, but we're gonna start with Sadie and her grandfather, my best friend in Curling and my mentor, and we you've heard Jim's voice on the episodes in the past, Jim Waite, who has a story of his own because he has set a scholastic coaching record. My friend is done something that no other scholastic coach has done in the past. So that's kind of where we're at. So, Sadie, over to you. How did this all start?

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Yeah, so I grew up um from probably four years old, kind of playing a bit of soccer and hockey, as I'm sure many Canadians do. Um, I kind of around the age of 10 or 11, I chose to pursue soccer a bit more seriously, which um led me to a whole wide array of opportunities, um, including one of moving down to Toronto at the age of 13 to be part of a kind of national development program with other kind of top players within Canada and Ontario. Um, that helped me kind of get scouted to some universities in the US, which I ended up um eventually choosing the University of Nebraska, which I just graduated in December. Um, it was a really probably the best four years of my life so far, still young, but so far. Um had a really amazing experience there. And now it's led me to the opportunity to play professional soccer here back in Canada. So this is I'm three games in now to my professional career with the Ottawa Rapid here in Ontario.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

And the the record is after three games, Sadie?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Uh oh, sorry, two games. We're playing our next game tomorrow, but won one and lost one. So we're doing okay. We're even to start.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

All right, great. So, what we want to hear from you because we're we're talking about you know being a scholastic athlete. Now, I'm a big 10 fan. I have the big 10 network. Now, I hate to tell you, but I'm a little partial to that school in in Ann Arbor. Yeah, so don't don't feel badly about that. It just happens to be the closest one.

SPEAKER_02 4:10

No, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Fair enough. Tell us your experience in at Nebraska. Go horn go corn huskers.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

What was it like in an American environment with NIL all around you and the transfer portal and all that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Yeah, as I said, it was truly one of the best experiences of my life. I think for me going into the University of Nebraska, it was kind of a weird time with recruitment, which I know is a big part of kind of any sport trying to pursue a D1 career. Um, it was COVID during my time when the rules kind of changed where you can go and visit schools. So I was able only to talk via FaceTime and calls with these coaches, but I was lucky enough to have another teammate of mine who'd already committed to Nebraska. So I kind of had a little bit of an in of how their program was ran. Um, two of the main coaches are Canadian as well. So that was a really big draw for me. And um when it was my finally my senior year, I was able to go down and visit, and I just fell in love with it completely. Um, as you said, it's a very different experience from the Canadian schools, from what I've heard with my friends. Um, I think the big thing is how many fans are supporting the schools and what a deep legacy it leaves for a lot of people and a lot of families, especially within Nebraska. And as you said, NIL and the transfer portal was really just continuing to develop over my three and a half years there. Um, I know for especially the bigger sports with football, for example, it's a huge draw for different types of schools to gain more money and more players going within and out of these programs. And I think it's just going to continue to change and develop over the next few years.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Well, I know even though the uh the boys from uh across the border in Ann Arbor won the basketball championship, all five of their starters ended up at Michigan through the transfer portal. What we're hearing from coaches uh is this sense of trying to build a program where you get an athlete as a freshman and you have that athlete and you work with that athlete, you develop a relationship with the athlete and his or her friends and family. And yeah, I'm always very pleased when I hear coaches talk about the measure of success is not the W's and L's. The measure of success in their program is the percentage of their athletes that graduate. For sure. And as we're hearing from coaches now, that hope and aspiration is has been taken away. It's like anything else, Sadie. You know, nothing's perfect. There's going to be some things that are good about the program, in this case NIL and transfer portal, but there's things that aren't so great. So what from your perspective as an athlete in Nebraska, what what what did you see from your perspective?

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Yeah, I think a big thing, I think for soccer, it's a little bit different than as you mentioned, kind of basketball and football and some of those bigger sports that are bringing in the majority of the revenue for these bigger schools. But even for myself going and trying to choose a school in the US, a big draw for me was, as you mentioned, kind of graduation, a balance of athletics and academics and making sure you're getting the most out of the time that you have there. Um, but from my perspective, I think it was, we always would joke as a team that, for example, the football team, you would have one semester, these people that you would get to know. And then the next semester, it was probably 20 guys that you had never seen before, which in my opinion is just a little bit wild when you're talking about kind of getting an education and committing to a school and just having some friends on these different teams. I think for them too, it was a really big deal to have both the coaches as well as yourself commit to this program and build those relationships. And as you said, kind of be as committed to academics and athletics throughout it, rather than I think was sometimes how the NCAA is getting so business driven that a lot of the times you're really looking for kind of what are you going to make the most money, get the biggest kind of image within yourself. And so for me, just kind of from the outside looking in on some of these bigger sports, as you mentioned, I think the commitment is the biggest change for these schools. And it's kind of more of a business opportunity rather than focusing on kind of what you can do within the relationships. But I know Nebraska had a really good kind of, in my opinion, the coaching staff there for leaving the football, for example, was trying to change that a little bit. I know one year we had, I think it was zero transfers leave the football team, which is kind of unheard of right now with NCAA. So I think some schools are trying to kind of change that narrative that's being built within NIL, but I think definitely it's having a huge impact on a lot of these bigger teams and programs.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Tell us about the impact of Title IX.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

With just kind of the equal for women's and men's. Yeah, I think it's a really big focus point for Nebraska at least. I know they really try to have focus for the female athletes of kind of building the awareness of it so that we know what it is and what it represents. And um, I believe for the Nebraska and many and the other NCAA schools, you need to have an equivalent kind of funding for the men's program as a female program. So for us, that kind of led up like we didn't have a men's soccer program, just a women's soccer program, and that kind of was in different sports. But I do really think that's um a really important thing within the NCAA that I hope they continue to focus on. Because I know even for us, it's given us a lot of different opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Well, and of course, it's the law. I mean, that's why they call it Title IX. Yep, the the educational institutions don't have a choice, they have to support both programs. That was way overdue.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Uh Jim and I have been big supporters in women's sports, and I mean curling is maybe a little bit different, but I mean, right now we're in the midst of the the Stanley Cup playoff, but we're also watching the professional women's hockey league.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

If I have to choose, I can take the women's hockey game over and hockey game anytime. Because those athletes are really good. For sure. I kind of they have a whole different outlook to things. So, well, let's switch over to that uh gentleman that I introduced just a little while ago. Uh, Jim has been the varsity uh golf coach at uh Western University, formerly University of Western Ontario, for how long, Jim? 35 years. It's a long one. And you always said you're gonna keep doing it till you get it right.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Well, I'll tell you one quick story. My one of my best friends and my fellow coach was with me as an assistant for 27 of those 35 years, and he was a wonderful, wonderful person. And out of nowhere, he passed away earlier this year. And we'd often talked in the last little while about when we were gonna give this up. And Mike said, his name was Mike Tomlinson, and Mike said, Well, I'm gonna quit when you do. Well, what encouraged me to call it quits here was the passing of Mike, because we were together for so long and we kind of decided we were gonna go at the same time. Well, it's a little bit later, but uh 35 years is enough time, and and one year without Mike is enough time.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

So, what have you seen in terms of uh being a scholastic coach? How have athletes changed from your perspective? If at all, maybe not so much.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Well, they haven't the the program hasn't changed like it has in the States. So get into Western, you must be an academic before you can even talk to the coach about playing golf. And so Western has the highest standard of any university in in Ontario, as high if not higher. And to even get in here, you've got to have a plus plus plus average. And so players don't come here to um golf first, you know what I'm saying? They come here for their academics, and golf is second. And so when I get these players, and I have I have 30 to 35 players try out each year with indexes of or handicaps of 2.5 or less, and so we have some quality players, but there are some other schools I know where the academic requirement is not quite as high as often than we do because their focus is on golf as opposed to academics, and that's not a slam, that's just the way it is. When I'm working with these athletes, I have to be aware that they are academics first, and when I set up my program, I have to ensure that if if they have a conflict between golf and academic program, it's academic program first. And we say to them right at the beginning at Western, it's academics first, athletics second, and that goes across the board. Now I know at football they uh you know they get some people who transfer into here or start here, and they're on uh mini scholarships, not a big scholarship. You get some assistance with uh the programs, that sort of thing. But we don't golf or minor sports don't have any rewards or athletic and you know and attachments to come into play. So when I'm creating a program, I have to be aware it's academics first, and I let them know that and that we will work around any conflicts that they have.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Well, my first experience coaching curling, I was very fortunate, as I mentioned at the outset, was at the University of Waterloo, of course, just down the 401 from your your university, and uh I took that very seriously. I would say to my athletes, I'm only going to ask for an hour out of your day. Now, of course, I knew that was more than an hour because there was travel time from the University of Waterloo to the Westmount Delphin Country Club, which was our practice facility. And I I very much respected the fact that they had uh workloads. I remember one time the athletes had arrived, they were in the change room, so I went over, opened their textbooks, and and I turned to I thought, I thought they I thought they printed this stuff in English. Like, like it was, you know, it was engineering and physics and all the sorts of stuff. Oh my gosh, you know, heavy uh academic loads. But I always found that scholastic athletes were by their very nature very well organized. Um, they were very efficient in how they structured their day. Sadies, does this sound familiar to you when you were at Nebraska?

SPEAKER_02 15:14

100% for sure. Yeah, it's a big balance that I think you learn pretty early on, and that's the only way that you kind of make it through if you can figure out the time management between balancing both.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Now, as far as let's get down to the nitty-gritty here, is money. Uh at Nebraska was were all the programs very well supported in terms of financial support. And and how did they go about that at Nebraska?

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Yeah, for sure. We definitely had um limited re uh like a very wide array of resources. I think, as I said, Nebraska, with having no professional sports within the state as well, um, that really drives it as well. I think the alumni is super supportive of all the sports in terms of kind of NIL and everything with international athletes. It's a very kind of strict liability piece of you're not really allowed to sign too much for NIL. Um, I know obviously people who are within the United States, and again, those bigger athletes, they have a lot of opportunities to sign these bigger deals with Nebraska. They had a really good um amount of resources to try to help support these students navigate it. Cause I think as you're kind of referring to it's a big unknown right now for sports. And I think that um having the support from within the university and the programs was really helpful for a lot of the student athletes to navigate how they're supposed to do this properly.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

You brought up something very important. I don't think there are many states in the United States where there is no frontline perfection, like there's no NFL team, NBA team, NHL team, that sort of thing. So your university programs, you're it. I mean, you're you're supported by the entire state. I mean, it's Nebraska, whether it's football, soccer, but baseball, but whatever it happens to be. And I think that makes a big difference. Uh and it's sometimes difficult for Canadians to wrap their heads around the importance of, and maybe that's not the best uh noun, but the impact that varsity sports has on small towns in the United States, like like for example, Ann Arbor's, not a big place. Now it's very close to Detroit, obviously, but so often Bill, if I could just jump in there.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Sure. We took a trip a couple of times down to Lincoln, where Sadie's school is, and uh it is so different. The whole university is a part of the city of Lincoln or the town of Lincoln, like a city, but it's amazing, isn't it, Sadie? Like you walk downtown and the stadium is there, seats 100,000 people, and it's just crazy how the whole oh, the state of Nebraska and the city of Lincoln encompasses the University of Nebraska.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

So, Sadie, if you were advising a high school student who had the same hopes and aspirations as you, what would maybe be your top three uh pieces of advice that you might share based on your experiences?

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah, I think the big thing that I always say to any person who's trying to pursue any type of sport and going to that next level is to make sure that you enjoy it. I think that's something that I've kind of stuck with the whole time that I've kind of been pursuing my career within soccer, is because in my belief, in my opinion, the mental side of the game is just as important as the physical. And if you're not enjoying it and loving it, then I don't think you're gonna succeed even near your full potential. Um, I also think in terms of going to kind of choosing a school and that next level, if you're looking towards D1 or Canadian universities as well, is to make sure that you have that fit the same way the school is going to support you, that you're gonna support the school. Um, and again, kind of focusing on that balance of athletics and academics, because as my Papa was saying, same thing, Canadian or American, at the end of the day, you're not gonna be playing sports forever. And so having that academic side is great, is huge for you. So making sure that you have that balance within the school.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Well, as I said, my friends know what a supporter I am of college sports. And I'm always quick to remind them that for so many of those athletes on that football field, on that hockey rink, on that basketball court, that when they're in their senior year, and there's a reason why senior night or senior day is so important, because for many, you know, football has been their life or soccer has been their life or whatever the sport happens to be, that's probably the last time in their life they're gonna play at that level. Now, I know that there are other opportunities in in other venues, but I mean, when that's been, you know, such a part of your whole life, and all of a sudden you realize this is my last game. I'm never gonna play at this level again. But you, of course, sort of came on things that just the right time. So tell us about tell us about the transition from being scholastic athlete to being professional athlete, even though I know it's very early in your career.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Yeah, as you said, it was kind of super new. It was crazy to me to look back my freshman year at Nebraska. There wasn't even a league within Canada for women's professional soccer. And so, kind of as the years continued throughout Nebraska, I saw some of my friends and herd of coaches kind of introducing that this league might be a possibility. And so I would say in my junior year, that's kind of when I started looking of this might be something that I, if I am lucky enough to get the opportunity, I'd love to pursue it post-college. Um, my one friend from Nebraska as well, who has actually on the Ottawa team with me now, she was a year older than me and she went into the league. And so this is actually only the second year of the league. So I think everything is very, very new. But so far the experiences have been incredible. And I don't think you're ever gonna match what the US schools can provide in terms of kind of funding, at least at this point within kind of how new the NSL is. But the amount of opportunities for me as a 21-year-old, just who has freshly graduated to continue to play this sport that I love and that I've been playing for the majority of my life is I'm just very, very grateful for it. And already being able to travel and meet new people and yeah, just having this as a job has been incredible, and I'm very grateful for it.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Well, I don't know if Papa has mentioned to you that we now have the very beginnings of professional curling, and it's called Rock League. And the first uh dipping of the toe occurred at the end of the season this year, and I think Jim would agree. I'll let him speak uh to this himself, but I I'm threatened. That there is that opportunity now for curlers at the highest level to perhaps maybe not earn as much money to say that they can make a living from it, but certainly it can augment their income. Jim, over to you on Rock League. What what were your thoughts as you saw it being unveiled?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Well, I watched a bit of it, I didn't watch it all, but I was most impressed about how the players were into it. I think if anybody enjoyed it, you know, more than anybody else, then the players enjoyed it immensely. And uh take a look at uh the Swedish skip who just retired and after an unbelievable career, and he said, But the one thing I'd like to do is continue with the Rock League. So it's got a lot of going to uh to grow to get to become, you know, a pro sport of recognition in Canada, but it started.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Well, you're talking about Nick and Dean, obviously. And he only has eight world championships, a meatly eight world championships. I mean, what kind of record is that?

SPEAKER_01 23:05

But that's what shows uh how important it was to the players because he the one stipulation he made upon his retirement that he wants to continue to play in the Rock League.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

So good for him. Yeah, good for him. Well, I think as far as scholastic athletics is concerned, we're certainly at the cusp of a definite change. Papa and I can talk about coaching for just a second, Sadie. I it it it pains me, and I don't mean to be over dramatic about this, to see coaches with a lot of productive years left deciding that for a number of reasons that they can no longer build a program and follow athletes from start to finish and care about them as individuals. Now it's it's a business. And I think we're losing a lot of coaching talent because coaches have become quite disillusioned. Uh, the difference between coaching professional athletes and coaching scholastic athletes, for some coaches who we'll talk about the NFL and and college football, there are a lot of college uh coaches with exemplary records at the college level who decided to go into the NFL and it didn't last very long because they just didn't like working with athletes with a completely different um mindset towards their position, you know, in that particular sport. They really liked working with young people who are starting to build their own careers. You're gonna be impressed when you actually hear the first episode, um, you're gonna be impressed with Lou Saban, who was never one of my favorite coaches, but I really appreciated what he had to say because I think he was speaking from the from the heart. And I would suspect that your coaches at Nebraska, you sense very early that they cared as much about you as a student as an athlete. Would that be the case, Sadie?

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, and and that's what that's what it's all about. That's why Jim and I got involved in sports in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

So, Bill, just to reference that area, um, every year on my team at Western, I have at least one player who has returned from scholarship in the United States. And the reason for the return universally is because the coach didn't care about their academics. The coach's livelihood depends on him producing a winning team. And so he wanted the players on the course constantly and too much so that they couldn't do any academic work successfully. So one year I had three returning athletes that that left a scholarship in the United States to come back and play for their for their university in Canada because of the academics.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yes. Um the balance is is very tenuous, and Sadie, you seem to have balanced it perfectly in your career. What's the nickname of your team in Ottawa?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

I think it's just the Rapid in Ottawa, yeah. Just the Rapid.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yeah, Ottawa Rapid. That's great. Yeah, that's great. Well, Sadie, I can't thank you enough for taking some time. It is a busy time, you know, because as I said, now that you're a professional athlete, it's it's it's a little bit different ball game. Okay. For sure. And Jim, once again, your your input in everything that's ever happened in my coaching career uh has led back to you because when I started, you're the first person who encouraged me to go into a coaching more or less as a professional. And you've been a great guide for me. And and uh if I didn't know, if I didn't know what to do, I know who to go to to find out what to do. And that person, of course, has been you, Jim.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Oh, it's been mutual abilities of a treasure.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, thank you very much. Okay, guys. So we're into the month of May. You know, can't can't wait to get out on the sailboat, which is I said to your granddad, Thursday, my boat goes in the water. It's like very exciting. It's like Christmas Day to a sailor.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

That's all thank you, Sadie, and good luck to you. Say we played, went down to Ottawa on uh Sunday to see Sadie play, and she plays again on Wednesday of this week, right, Sades?

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Well, I won't, I never say good luck to an athlete because luck is where preparation meets opportunity. And if you've prepared, this is your opportunity. So good luck anyway.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

All right, thanks, guys. Thanks, Bill.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I have joined granddad Jim Waite and have become a fan of the Ottawa Rapid. I've seen Katie's team play one game so far of the Northern Super League. It's exciting soccer. And of course, soccer slash football is going to be on everybody's lips over the next few months because TIFA, the world governing body for football across the world, has its premier event, the World Cup. Now, soccer fans, don't be upset when I say don't quite understand why you call it the World Cup. Because your trophy isn't a cup. The Stanley Cup is a cup. Now, just a little uh kidding aside because this is the world's most popular event, the FIFA World Cup. And we have it on our side of the oceans this time with Mexico, the United States, and Canada all hosting games. These are the best athletes in that sport and the games will be compelling. Oh again, thank you for joining me. Hopefully, you were with me for both episodes on Scholastic Athletes. And again, if you have any uh stories to tell generically about your experiences as a coach with Scholastic Athletes, all you need to do is click on the hyperlink at the end of the show notes and send me your thoughts. It will all be private conversation. I have no idea who you are. And some coaches have weighed in on that, and I'm sort of saving their comments for another time. And speaking of another time, remember those wise words of that great North American philosopher Charlie Brown, don't focus too much on things that make you sad because there are so many things that make you happy. Until next time.