A Remarkable Year In Review

In this episode of "A Pane In The Glass Podcast" Hans Frauenlob and I talk about what I described in the episode as a most remarkable year in the sport of curling, with Olympics, World Championships and Rock League. And, for good measure we talk a little baseball as a new technology is unveiled, ABS (automated balls & strikes), and its effect on the game. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to another episode of the Pain in the Class Podcast. This is your host, Phil Stuarhardt, Drive Professional Coach with Coaches of Canada, once again, coming to you from my home in Grand Bend, Ontario, on the ancestral land of the Kettle and Stony Point First Nations. Well, prior to the Olympics, my friend Hans Fraunlaub and I uh talked about the uh potential for success or not so much success with curling athletes and teams at the then upcoming Olympics in Italy. Well, we promised that we would wrap things up when it everything concluded, and that's what you're going to hear today. And that is certainly the bulk of our conversation. And we also talked about rock league and right at the end, a little bit of baseball. So sit back and enjoy my chat with Hans looking back over a very remarkable year in the sport of curl. Post Cortina Dempezzo and your reaction to what you saw. So give us your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Well, as we are here now, I guess pretty much at the end of the competitive curling season, which included Cortina Dampezzo. Yeah, Olympic years for curling never disappoint. I guess that's the thing that uh I take away from a season like this, and that's for a couple of reasons. The Olympics are the Olympics, and that's the pinnacle for the sport. But also, you know, a lot of interesting things happen this season uh outside of the Olympics. The worlds after an Olympics is always interesting, and we'll talk about that a bit further on, because the team compositions post an Olympics in an Olympic year are always a little bit different in a world, and it makes it really exciting. And as well, this year we had the introduction of the Rock League, and that was really tried for the first time this year after men's and women's worlds, so it's been a really interesting year. The Olympics, coming back to that, Bill, was tremendous. Um, you know, we're all aware of the controversy that happened um uh between Oscar and Mark, but the effect of that was that literally everybody in the world, everybody that I've talked to in every walk of life post-the Olympics has heard about curling. They've heard about the uh controversy, they they watched some of the things, they were interested in it, they wanted to know more, but it was about more than that, obviously. Uh, the eyes of the the world are on curling at an Olympics time. And curling as an event and as a spectacle, beyond the controversy, just the playing was uh incredible. Uh the mixed doubles tournament was spectacular, the men's and the women's tournament tremendous, the fan support brilliant. So Olympics never disappoints, and Cortina was special. The atmosphere in the building was just terrific, and the athletes loved it.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Well, I want you to know I watched the mixed doubles with great interest and loyalty. I I couldn't get enough of it. There was something about the way the athletes played, the skill level that they showed, and I'm a huge advocate of women's sports in general, but in that gold medal game to see the two women absolutely, you know, our favorite phrase in curling, shoot the lights out. Now, no disrespect to the to the male members of the team, but oh, what a spectacular display that uh that they really put on. It was fantastic. So yeah, the mixed doubles, I think, shone brightly, shall I say.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, it was it was great entertainment. It's gone past being a curiosity and a novelty, and it's uh something now that curling fans at Olympic time and even casual curling fans, I think, really anticipate now for the reasons that you mentioned. It's uh it's a different dynamic, it's different shot making. As a broadcast sport, curling always draws the listener into it because you can hear the athletes and you can see their faces and you can feel the emotion in a way that no other sport brings to the table. And in mixed doubles, that's amplified because there's only two. So the interpersonal dynamics between the teammates, uh, the reactions, the expression, and doubles, the amount of rocks in play just amplifies that. So as a televised spectacle, and that's really what the Olympics are, it's just brilliant, brilliant television.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

The listeners can't see me as you can see me, but all I'm doing is nodding my head here. I agree with everything you're saying. Now, there has been some post-uh McDouble's talk that maybe they may expand the number of opportunities for the power play.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

What's your thoughts about that? I think you know, it's been interesting. You know, the rules of the sport, you know, evolve over time. And um uh, you know, we've seen that in men's and women's first with the introduction of the free guard zone, and then um more rocks in the free guard zone and a no-tick rule. And same in uh mixed doubles, you know, mixed doubles when it started, there was no power play. Um uh stones were in different positions, but now the power play, the intention of the power play when it was introduced, was to promote offense. That was really uh the intention of the power play, is that the team with the hammer with the stones in a different position have a higher chance of scoring multiples. That was the the theory behind the power play. Um, what's been uh found is that a lot of teams keep the power play in their pocket as a as a defensive weapon, that if they get a lead, um they'll use the power play to reduce the risk of a steal. And that's you know, that's a fair tactic. Um, but you know, the consequence is that the power play uh loses some of its um I guess design feature. You know, it was never really designed to be a defensive weapon. There is discussion, you know, uh multiple power plays, you know, that's definitely an option. And if you had that, then you'd be more inclined to use at least one of them in an offensive uh manner than earlier in the game, and that's the other thing, people tend to keep the power play in the pocket for the second half. You know, we'll see. I think the uh and the other thing that's happened now, again, down to the skill of the athletes, uh, defending against the power play by um uh angle tapping in the corner guard uh has also had an effect of neutralizing power plays, perhaps a bit too easily. So, you know, one antidote to that could be a second power play, it could be consideration for how stones can be moved. I think the the the the game as a game right now, it's it's kind of broken out of its yeah, the shot pattern, of course, is going to be pretty consistent over the game. It's gotten so much less predictable than it used to be. Um, you know, so I think the game's in a pretty good place, I guess, is where I'm going with all of that. So, does it need a lot of new rules to tweak to make it better? It's it would be marginal, I think. I think it's a pretty good standalone uh event as it is right now. Um, the thing I love about mixed doubles, other than um the fact that I love mixed doubles, you know, as a as a game, um, the pace of it's fantastic. So first rock to last rock, you know, an hour and three quarters. You can whip through, you can play three a day, no drama. As long as you're preserving that element of fast pace, lots of action, things going on, then I think mixed doubles is going to be remain in a good place.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Well, it certainly is gaining more and more traction here in Canada. No question about it. There are more and more opportunities for mixed doubles teams to play on a regular basis. Some of our athletes who would normally be playing four-person curling have teamed up with someone and they've decided, no, we're we're going to we're going to play mixed doubles this year, and we're going to see, you know, where it can lead to. So I think that's terrific as well.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

In places like New Zealand, where you haven't got the curling numbers that you have in other places, kids here grew up with mixed doubles. So it was difficult to form a team of four. It was really easy to form a team of two and actually get some good competition going. As an introduction into the game for areas where you haven't got a lot of players, and it can be tougher to get a team of four together, especially at a competitive level. Doubles is a fantastic introduction to the game. Um, the other thing that I've I guess observed on the back of that, kids that grow up playing doubles grow up thinking shot placement and strategy from the first time that they've played the game. So they're not spending their five years of duty sweeping somebody else's stones in the front end and then only then thinking about how they'd call a game. Um, when you're playing doubles, you're calling the game from the moment that you start playing it. So I think doubles for junior curlers is an introduction to the sport is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Never never looked at it that way. That's a great outlook. You're so smart, Hans. Okay, let's go on to the women's uh play. Yeah, I I did not write this down, but what were our predictions on the women's side? How close? How close did we come?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

In the Olympics, not so good. But uh uh the Olympics was um you know, again, a great event. I guess the the thing I was happiest about, and now we're um having this conversation some months on, even though she did not win uh the gold medal, seeing Silana Taranzoni's reaction to winning a medal was one of my highlights of the Olympic experience. When they won their semifinal game, or when they won their game to clinch the medal, rather, the the uh expression on her face was um absolutely magnificent in the sense that uh you could feel vindication and justification and achievement, you know, all wrapped up in a three-second reaction. And for me, that's what the Olympics is all about. That's it was she didn't win the gold medal, but she achieved a lifelong dream by meddling and being on the podium at an Olympic winner games, and it was magnificent. So, team Holman, you know, they they they fought hard. It's a hard competition to win. You know, the Olympics is a hard competition to win. You've got great teams, great games. Uh team Hasselborg were tremendous through the week. They were kind of sleepers going in. Not everybody was talking about them being uh the champions, but you know, class tells. So and and an excellent event. And um, yeah, it's it's just really gratifying to see what it means to every single athlete, whether they're successful or not. And so the women's event, it will be really interesting to see how Team Holman approaches the next Olympic cycle, whether they reload, run it back. You know, it's a long time to keep it together for another four years to have another run. Uh, but they also uh you could see the the pride that they took in their achievement. You know, they are Olympic medalists and you know, huge, huge accomplishment for uh Rachel Holman and her teammates. And again, justifiable pride. You know, that's a huge accomplishment. So uh a dramatic event as always, and um uh and really well, really well played.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Any photographs that I'd have seen of Team Holman with their medals, it is genuine joy to display that medal. It does, it doesn't it doesn't have to be gold, but it's been on the podium. There's a reason why that absolutely can see in Canada is called on the podium. It doesn't really matter the color. I think that's that's a very good point. Do you just generally because you've been to world championships, you've been to Olympics, is it your sense that it's just harder at the Olympics for whatever reason? Or maybe that's not the best way to describe it, but it's different.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

Well, it's definitely different. I think the thing I'd characterize it about it is, you know, if you think about any curling tournament, you know, whether it's a three-day cash spiel or whether it's a briar or whether it's an Olympics or whether it's a regional qualifier, you know, they're all kind of standalone things, you know, they've got a beginning, you compete, somebody wins. Your head tells you, okay, well, the Olympics is no different. It's a competition, you go, you play. The th the different the difference about an Olympics is you've planned your entire four-year life around that event. And so even though, you know, the sports psychologist in your brain part of you is saying, okay, it's just another event, you know, in your heart it's not. You know, you've basically organized your entire life around peaking for that moment, getting to that place and peeking for that moment. You can't shut that off. But you know, at the end at the end of the exercise, it is just another event. You know, there's 10 teams in it, you're competing, somebody's going to win, somebody's going to have a great week, somebody's going to have a bad week. Um, that happens in every event, not just the Olympics. So because it only happens every four years, it's magnified. You know, you don't get another chance for another four years. And so if you have a great week, you know, you're you have a great week forever. Uh, you know, if you have a bad week, it's a bad week forever, or a long time before you get another shot. So that's what makes the Olympics different. It's, you know, it's an event, it's another event, you know, it's just another curling event. But because you've been organizing your life around it, because you don't get very many shots at it, you know, that's a different thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Metamorphosis that took place with Team Sweden, okay, Nick's and then Team Sweden to finish two and two and nine? Do I have that right? I think it was two and nine. I mean, you could have won an awful lot of money that that wasn't going to happen. And then in short order, they turn around and in a very competition magnificently, and that just illustrates that that's why it's called sports, and that's why they play the games. I I I have a great deal of respect for that team. Had it been the opposite, if they had won the Olympic gold medal and then gone on to the worlds and been two and nine, I that's a totally different dynamic. But to be two and nine in the Olympics and then come back at the worlds, yeah. So, well, then we're since we're talking about the men's competition, yeah. Way you way you go, Hans.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah, world men's. Well, yeah, as I said, you know, necklace just does it, right? Um, so the you know, the world's after an Olympics, um, because you do tend to have a different mix of teams and competitions uh competing is for me always interesting. Um uh Ross White and his team from Scotland played great. Everybody knows they're a good team, right? But they never seem to get an opportunity to kind of demonstrate at the top level. Well, they did that in spades at worlds, you know, they competed really, really well. Stefano Spiller, um, the young Italian skip stepping in for uh Joel Retornis. And um now we've learned we'll uh form a new team next year, uh, with Amos Mosaner and um Sebastiano Armand competing with him and his brother Cesare. You know, that's like a new evolution in Italian curling and first ever worlds appearance for Poland. So world men's um was always really interesting. And yeah, Nicholas doing what Nicholas does. Um, he just wins world championships. He's a bit like Sylvana in the sense of, you know, what's your favorite spiel? Oh, well, the world championship, you know, and just win that all the time, you know, and Nicholas just seems to rise to the occasion at worlds.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Well, sometimes the margin of victory is very, very small. So if we can go back to that quarterfinal game, Canada and Italy, I I think I hope I my recollection is correct. All that young man has to do is get a rock over the hog line. All he needs is a guard. And if if I can put my coaching hat on, and and when I had the pleasure of coaching Team New Zealand, you know, I I said that if you really want to get better, the best way to do it is to reduce your unforced errors to zero. And of course, in curling, that means execution tolerance. And so what I'm left with, I would love to talk to that Italian team and ask the following okay, was it indicated that that as long as we get a guard on that path? Yeah, it would be nice if it was right here, but we just we just have to get a guard and and and make Brad play a very difficult shot. So was it indicated, usually by the the person in the head, person in the house, was it confirmed by the brushers, and was it acknowledged by the person delivering the rock? Give me three yeses to that. And if you did, and you just miss the shot, okay. But if I get a no to any one of those, then that's not acceptable. And to me, from a coaching perspective, I say how important execution tolerance is in that particular environment. So sorry for the coaching.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

No, that's that's that's really, really valid. And you know, that's the thing about um winning at the top level is that kind of um synchronization in terms of teams being on the same page for sure. But because overall the execution is really, really high, you know, generally there are two or three moments, half misses, etc., in a game that really do determine the outcome. Often they happen late, and often um now time clock is also a factor in terms of uh pace of decision making. So teams that can kind of, I don't want to use curling coaching cliches, but you know, can kind of run their process cleanly under huge pressure, time pressure, situational pressure, still get it right and execute, they win. So uh you hate to have a lesson like that, you know, if we're coming back to Stefano Spieler. But you know, do you think he'll remember that situation again for the rest of his current life and apply it to the next situation and be successful? You know, so nothing teaches like that. So um, unfortunate as it was, you know, watch out for this team in the future. And there's a lot of potential there, and they'll grow from that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Now, on on the big picture, the the Olympics being in three, you know, broken up into three definite, you know, sites. What was that like? Like you've been at an Olympics where it was the Olympic village, everybody was in the same place, the da da da da da. Now we we see something a little bit different. I think economics probably had a great deal to do with it, but but it certainly was well executed from a spectator perspective. And full credit to the uh the broadcast providers, especially RCBC. They do a fantastic job at the Olympics and always have been. But what was it like for for you being there? Oh, it was magical.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

I mean, uh Cortina d'Ampezzo could be one of the most beautiful places on earth. It is just an incredibly beautiful place. The the mountains, the outlook, the scenery are just tremendous. And the events that were held in Cortina, women's alpine, bobsled luge skeleton curling, what a terrific combo. I mean, um, sliding fans are crazy, and the uh so the atmosphere and uh the town was great, curling fans likewise. Um, women's alpines, the the Tofane run um is one of the most celebrated courses in in women's alpine. So as a you know, uh there were multiple events happening in and around Cortina, so it felt like a multi-sport event. In Milan, likewise, you had hockey, you had figure skating, um long track, uh, speed skating, etc. So in most places there was more than one discipline happening. There were a few towns where there was a single discipline happening, but the thing that I liked best for the athletes was the organizers made a real effort to create that sense of total team. Like they did that with the opening and closing ceremonies. They would cut between athletes that were parading in Cortina and athletes that were parading in Milan, and made it feel like because it was a single thing, uh credit to them. And so multi multi-venue Olympics are definitely the future. There is no doubt, especially for winter games, you want to use existing facilities as much as possible. You want to avoid huge spends to hold these things. So um it will certainly be the case when uh the winter games come to Salt Lake again. And the bid for the next winter games in the south of France, the French Alps, likewise that'll be multi-site. And same in the summer games, Los Angeles Olympics, women's softball will be in Oklahoma City. And so uh having events happening in multiple places as opposed to all in one city, that's definitely the future. Um, it's the only economically sensible way to do it. But as long as the athletes feel like they're a part of that bigger whole, as they everybody's making an effort to do, then I think the athlete experience is still I went to in Olympic Games.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Well, that feeling, even though the whole Olympic team wasn't there, that feeling of being part of the Canadian team or that it was that wasn't lost, is what I'm saying. Exactly right. Exactly right. That's so important. I think that really is important. Okay, well, Rock League. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Over to you. Well, you know what? I mean, uh I'm I wanted us to have this conversation after Rock League because I was really interested to see how it would be presented, how the athletes would feel about it, how the fans would feel about it. Short summary, I liked it. You know, longer thing was wearing the athlete hat. Now, historically, there have only been two ways to earn a living as a curling athlete. The old school way was you played in cash spiels and you won them. So you got your earnings from uh being a successful athlete in cash tournaments. And, you know, back in the 70s, 80s, 90s, you know, maybe one percent of the competitive curling population could actually earn a living off of winnings from curling tournaments. Then when the Olympics came along, the second way to earn a living as an athlete was to basically be a state-sponsored or a state-funded athlete. Countries that wanted to see their teams win Olympic medals or uh win world championships would um either grant money to athletes to uh train, or in the case of some countries, employ them as in Germany they call them sport soldiers, and so they basically get jobs that allow them to train and compete full-time as curling athletes. So those are the only two ways that you could make a living in curling as an athlete. Now, with the Rock League, there's a third way that uh for some athletes um that are participating in this, they get a salary, you know, and uh that would allow the competitors to earn money um and participate in something that's still curling and you know, but it's curling with a different purpose, different audience, uh, different goals than a World Zen Olympics. I think overall that's great. You know, the the challenge for athletes forever has been, you know, we need more money because curling athletes need to be compensated to play the sport. You know, that's a fair desire, but there's never been a commercial vehicle or a sensible vehicle that makes that possible. Rock League is an honest attempt, I believe, to uh create a vehicle, you know, with commercial goals, clearly. They're looking to make money, but they're looking to entertain. And it's giving curling athletes a chance to compete. Yeah, so the um so I was thinking about, you know, what's Nick Sulsky and the um curling group going for with Rock League, and you know, they're clearly trying to create an entertainment product that will be attractive to people commercially and um and and profitably. And you know, the things I liked about Rock League is a as a as a curling fan, it's the kind of the best of the Continental Cut. In other words, you've got a group of people competing as a team, but you know, in different disciplines, and so men's, women's, mixed doubles, you know, match winning that way across the three, you know, different um combinations in different games, um, different rules and different numbers of ends, you know, bonus points, all that kind of stuff. Great. I thought, you know, what does this remind me of? And so I, as I'm wont to do, I kind of cast my mind back into the history of sport and team sport and say, what does this feel like? And the thing that I wound up landing on, interestingly enough, was actually something from the 1970s and 80s that actually lasted into the early 2000s called World Team Tennis. That was a professional team tennis league that played, they brought collections of players together, men and women, and they would have a different format, you know, one franchise versus another franchise. They would play five sets, but it wouldn't be a five-set game traditionally, you know, one set would be men versus men, second set women versus women, and then there'd be doubles and mixed doubles, and so they would play five sets that way. And so it was still tennis, it was still high-level tennis. But the other thing that I think that was really interesting that relates to the curling dynamic, at that time, uh, major tennis tournaments, especially for women, paid very poorly, and there were very few professional tennis events for women to play in. So world team tennis represented for, dare I say it, the journeyman pro, somebody who wasn't like number one ranked, but you know, sort of in the uh in the mid-teens, an opportunity to earn a living at tennis for a lot of professional tennis players that was viable and attractive. And so if I think about where curling is at right now, you know, what where what's the future of the Rock League? I hope it's ragingly successful. It'll be an entertainment product. You know, will it be a qualifier to determine teams that are national champions in Olympics? No, but that's not really what it's for. It's a it's an entertainment, uh, it's sports, it's real, it's competitive, great athletes, and an entertainment. And for the athletes, an opportunity to get paid to play the game that you love. I think Rock League, I wish it every success. I think the challenge is going to be the you know, managing the playing calendar, in the sense of there'll be a lot of crossover, obviously, between athletes that are playing in rock league and athletes that are playing on the regular cash circuit and trying to qualify as national teams, and so but that'll sort out over time. Um, but if I think about an athlete like uh Yoshida Shinami, who's just left Setsuki Fujisawa's team, and she's captaining the typhoon franchise in the Rock League, and she said that she's going to do that for another year. You know, that's a valid path for her. She's a popular, skilled curling athlete, and she's going to commit her play to Rock League next season. Terrific. You know, I think that's an option now that athletes have never had in our sport to take that kind of direction. So it'll be really interesting to see how it evolves, but I think it's a great start.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Hence, what's the contractual obligation when you uh hopefully I use the right verb here, when you sign on to one of the franchises, what is what is that commitment to that franchise?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah, that's a great question. And um, you know, I'm not privy to the agreements that the athletes have signed with the curling group. Right now, I think the the the direction that I believe that uh the curling group wants to take with Rock League right now, they're all owned by the Curling Group. There is no independent owner of a franchise yet, but quite clearly the long-term goal will be for the curling group to sell franchises to private investors. But if I'm thinking about like most other sports, you'll be signing an agreement to do something for a period of time for some amount of money with clauses in it and relate to that. Now, I got no idea what the agreements are that the current athletes have actually signed with the curling group. But if you think about um other professional sports, you know, professional baseball, professional uh hockey, you sign a contract and you sign a contract and somebody's paying you money, and for that you do these things. You you appear for training, you play in games, there's expectations, and it'll be the same, I'm sure, for the agreements that the athletes have signed um with the curling group for Rock League, which is as it should be. You go into these things eyes wide open back in the world team tennis time. Organizers, the major tournaments, were not happy about world team tennis. I think I could be wrong about this, and so I apologize to the listeners if I am. In the early days of world team tennis, I believe that female athletes that played in world team tennis were actually barred from playing in the French Open for a few years because they were deemed to be professional. There was something that uh the French Open organizers didn't like. That changed over time, and so it'll be like that, I'm sure, with curling. It will find its place, I think, over time. There'll be some bumps along the way, and there'll be some starts and stops and um conflicts, but ultimately I think it's good for the sport.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Well, I I can't press stop without talking just a little bit of baseball. Sure, it's April. We can still talk about baseball, it's early, and you know, and you know the topic uh now that we've it's been what it's been about a month, I I guess or so. Just about a month. And I thought it was very interesting. And of course, I'm I'm talking about ABS because that's been the the big change this year. Automated balls and strikes. Generally speaking, I I think the technology has worked very well. It's quick, you don't have to wait very long. You know, tap your head, and it's literally within about five seconds, there is the graphic, and it's pretty obvious. I thought it was very interesting in a game I watched just the night before last, I think, and I can't remember the teams, it doesn't matter. There were eight challenges, seven of which were upheld. In other words, mostly due to the catchers. Catchers know. Yeah, I used to get over the street, and I thought it was it was very interesting that there didn't seem to be any, I'm not sure the word to use there. The umpires were were quite okay with it. I don't think anybody, you know, you have to hide sharp objects and keep them away from tall buildings, but it it it's worked pretty well so far, and it was very interesting because the umpires had to say, yes, and the Milwaukee Brewers still have their two challenges. You could see the inflection in the voice, like, yep, they were right again.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Yep, right again.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

So I was wrong, sorry. But you know, one more comment. I I just can't I I I just can't believe, and I've mentioned this before for an a non-collision sport. I'm not gonna say contact sport because there is contact, but for a non-collision sport, the number of injuries and I mean the Blue Jays have been hit, but they're not the only team that were just starting. But it's all about it's all about hands. It's a hands sport for most of the players, and it's just amazing the number of injuries right now.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

So yeah, yeah, it's it's tough. I mean, baseball of all the professional sports, the regular season is you know, a grind like no other, you know, 162 games. That's a heck of a lot of games, and injuries are going to happen. And keeping a roster intact, healthy, happy, performing over that long period of time, it's like mission impossible. You know, injuries are gonna happen. You know, next man up, you know, it's the cliche. Yeah, and the other thing, too, you know, with pitchers now, you know, velocity is king. So very few pitchers of the Greg Maddox um style left in baseball anymore that could give you learnings reliably, change speeds, get people out with pitch location, you know. So uh now you've got guys that are kind of coming onto the hill and you know, throwing a hundred and you know, maximum effort every pitch. And so maximum effort takes a toll, and injuries are the consequence of that. So, but it's tough, you know. Uh early season injuries always just feel like, oh man, don't these guys train and prepare? Well, they do, you know, but it's there's a lot of physical stuff going on in that sport. It's as you say, it's uh it's not um collision, but it's certainly maximum physical intensity.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah, it's it's it's not so much even the position players are are getting injured. No, when you're sliding into bases and that sort of thing, as I said, there's contact. You're not in contact with the other team, but you're in contact with equipment and so well the the Blue Jay fans have uh certainly had a bit of a cold bucket of water in their face during the season after coming so close in the World Series last year. But you don't win the world series, find out it's it's baseball, and it is 162 games.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Exactly that. Stay chill, hang in there, it's a long season, enjoy it. And and a final thought just before we wrap up, Bill, you know, around kind of the the next generation, you know, seeing women's worlds, Senior Schwaller and uh Isabel Rana um dueling it out now at the top level um gave us a real glimpse for the future. And uh we're so used to uh, you know, we've seen uh Brad Gushu um hang him up this year, and so uh we see athletes that have been in the game for a long time and they leave the game from a competitive sense and we miss them, obviously. But so exciting to see these young, talented teams um making their way, and in the case of Xenia Schwaller and her team, right to the top of the mountain. So I'm really excited about the future of our sport. We've got some great young athletes, great young teams coming into it, and I couldn't be more excited. Bonds, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Oh, half a world away. Thank you very much. I uh I get very excited when you give me the nod that, yeah, let's zoom and let's let's talk, and we're going to do it again soon.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Fantastic, Bill. A pleasure as always.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

And I meant that sincerely. It is very exciting for me to be able to chat with Hans on a number of topics. Uh, he is an Olympic athlete, uh, has uh great credentials now in the broadcast booth, and a little bit of baseball thrown in at the end. I hope you didn't mind that because he worked for the Blue Jays for a period of time during the World Series years, I might add. So I hope you enjoyed uh our little chit-chat back and forth. And of course, uh wherever you are, please stay safe. And don't forget that great North American philosopher Charlie Brown, do not focus too much on things that make you sad, because there are so many things that can make you happy. Until next time,