A Pane in the Glass Podcast

We're Talking Baseball & Curling

• Coach Bill • Season 4 • Episode 51

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In this episode of "A Pane In The Glass Podcast" a long time friend from the other side of the world joins me for a back-and-forth about baseball and curling, especially the Olympic variety. That long friend is Hans Frauenlob. He's been my guest on other occasions regarding Winter Olympic Games and an episode that has helped many who have decided to step back from the sport or activity they love and the challenges that decision poses. The episode was entitled, "Not Sad Because It's Over But Happy Because It Happened" (S2E12). 

If you click on "Transcript" above, you will see a text version of today's episode. Please forward the episode to someone who might like to read the text of the chat I had with Hans. 

It’s your turn! Send me your thoughts by texting here!

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to another episode of a Pain in the Glass podcast. This is your host, Bill Shearhart, Chartered Professional Coach with Coaches of Canada coming to you from the ancestral home of the Wassenick First Nations on Vancouver Island, Canada. Now, fear not, this is going to be about curling at some point. But we are going to talk baseball for a little bit. And for those that are listening in Southern Ontario, especially where it's ever so cold, thinking about baseball hopefully will warm you up. My guest today is Hans Fraunlaub. And if you are a regular listener to the podcast, you will recognize Hans. He has done a number of episodes with me. And he is very shortly going to be boarding an aircraft bound for Milano, Cortina, Italy, where he will be commentating on curling for the local host broadcaster. But as I said, we're going to start to talk a little bit about baseball and a lot about being a professional athlete. So let's have some one, two, three strikes here in. And we'll hear from my friend on the other side of the world in New Zealand, Hans Fraunla. Good morning, Hans. It is the same morning, but it's a different day where you are. Regarde to the podcast know that you and I have chatted on a number of times. And one of the best episodes was when you talked about the end of your career. Uh not sad because it happened, or not sad because it stopped, but happy because it happened. And I've shared that with an awful lot of people who have you know ceased playing their sport. And I said, You have to listen to my friend Hans. So you've helped a lot of people with that episode, by the way.

SPEAKER_02:

No, thanks, Bill. That's very kind.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for doing that. Okay, baseball. Yeah. Okay, no, I'm not coming from the center of the universe today. I'm coming from Vancouver Island, but certainly back home where there's 10 feet of snow on everybody's front yard today. Oh, North America's really getting blasted. Uh, the talk, of course, is uh the fact that Bo Bachet has signed with the New York Nets. And actually on Facebook, and of course, if you see it on Facebook, it must be true. Uh, I think the Toronto fans that have expressed their view have been very uh kind and understanding of thank Bo for what he provided the franchise, and that's all been very good. But as you and I spoke before I hit record, I always try to remind people that uh professional athlete that's a business, and that's what they are doing, it's their livelihood, and the average length of a professional career, of course, it depends upon the sport, is actually rather short. And and they don't have that long to make the money that uh I think they richly deserve when they're the best in the world. What's your take on that, Hans?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I have to agree. I mean, as fans, and we're all fans of teams, and even though I used to work for the Blue Jays, I was still a fan of the Blue Jays. You're exactly right. Careers are short, and you you you you watch players sign with your team and you watch them develop, and uh you think they're gonna be with the team forever, but I mean that's rarely the case. And uh in baseball, it takes a long time for a player to actually uh earn um the right to shop himself to another team in terms of free agency, and so not only your career is short, but within a career, you might only get one or two opportunities in that career to actually put yourself on the market of your own choice. You can't begrudge uh a player an opportunity to evaluate it uh his value to the marketplace. And yeah, you you hate to see a great player go um uh to another team. I saw it in in 1992, um, literally the day after the Blue Jays won the World Series. Several of the players immediately uh declared free agency, and you knew they weren't coming back, even though they'd just climbed the mountain and the Blue Jays this year, you know, were you know one step from the top of the mountain. They won the American League, you know, they lost in the seventh game. Um, so but coming back to players, yeah, you're right. It's a business. It's a professional sport, it's a business on both sides. Um, teams are employers, um, players are you know, contractors, employees, they work for the team. Um, loyalties absolutely, you know, but it's at the end of the day, um players are entitled. And in fact, you know, they would be it'd be wrong if they didn't look after their own future and their own livelihood.

SPEAKER_01:

Sometimes you you do get a hometown discount. There have been professional athletes for a variety of have decided that okay, not necessarily uh pay cut, but they didn't sign the extension to the contract because they rather liked the franchise, they liked the city, they thought about their family, that the young people had friends and roots uh settled down, and and that's that's good too. But of course, that's the option that they have. We hear in North America, especially in Canada, that uh the a gentleman who is the head of state in a country, I forget the name, to the south of us, who has declared, oh, it's been how many years since a Canadian team has won the Stanley Cup? You know, it's it's difficult for a Canadian to play in a Canadian city because they they they have to live a double life because they're a professional athlete, but their young family, the the sons and daughters hear about it at school that, oh, your dad, X, Y, Z, and that sort of thing. So they go to another city where they can sign for a similar contract where two blocks from the arena nobody knows who they are, and there's some value in that. And I think there's uh there's some value in fans understanding that why Canadian players go to an American city because it's it's just better for their family.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, different people make different choices at different points of their careers for different reasons, and yeah, it's not just money, you know, it's it's where you're going. These are all choices that you know, that all of us make as individuals, right? Through just a working career, if you're working for somebody, you're making a choice and you're factoring in where am I working, what are they paying me, what's it gonna be like there? Professional athletes are exactly the same. So you're right, you know, hometown discount. It's quite amusing now watching people react to. I remember when when the Blue Jays signed Vladie Guerrero and locked him up, everybody thought, oh my gosh, you know, that's a ridiculous amount of money that you're paying him. You know, long-term contract. That's what a stupid contract. And now, uh, when you're looking at the signings in the offseason, everybody's going, Wow, what a steal that was fantastic deal that we've got on Vladdy, right? So the perspectives of what is the right thing to do and what's fair. The thing is that the athletes are so in the public eye, right? It's just everybody, as you said, fanatics, everybody has a view.

SPEAKER_01:

Explain something to to me and my listeners, because we hear the term salary cap, and there's a salary cap certainly in hockey. Teams have people who are called capologists, and that's all they do is look for contracts that are going to be uh a little softer for their bottom line, etc. etc. Explain uh how baseball doesn't have what most people would think of as a salary cap. Now it is a soft salary cap. Explain the competitive balance tax and how that works.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, competitive balance tax, luxury tax. So baseball, more than just about any other professional sport, has suffered from labor disruption. There have been strikes um over the years where baseball has stopped. Um, when I was working for the Blue Jays in 1994, there was a stoppage that you know massively disrupted the season. And the number one uh issue uh around uh labor negotiations in baseball is always about salary cap. There's a bunch of other things, but it's always about salary cap. Uh so baseball's never implemented a full salary cap, and a salary cap for listeners is basically you've got a budget, you can't spend more than that, and the budget is prescribed. Uh in baseball, the compromise for that is saying, okay, well, we won't have a prescribed limit, but what we will do is if you spend above the prescribed limit, you're going to pay a tax on top of that. The idea is that okay, you're not going to put a ceiling on the amount of payroll that you have, but if you go above it, uh, you're going to uh pay in extra. And the idea there was it would put a drag on uh the big spenders in the sense that it wouldn't constrain them from signing that extra contract, but uh it might make them think twice because it kind of punishes them twice. They have to pay the player and they have to pay the tax. That's the theory. The reality, of course, is teams that where you wouldn't say budget is no object, but quite close to it.

SPEAKER_01:

Um can we say Los Angeles Dodgers at this point?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure we can. Absolutely. So, you know, the Dodgers, absolutely, the New York Mets to a lesser degree, uh, that's got ownership that are very, very happy to pay that tax. And you can argue in the case of the Dodgers, and that really manifested itself first and most significantly with Shoyotani, that it's it's a calculated investment in the sense of other revenues that they're going to get outside of ticket sales um by having an Otani on their team. Um, anyways, bringing it all back, um, without a salary cap, it's difficult to have competitive balance in in a sport. And National Football League does a really good job of maintaining competitive balance. Um players argue that it's uh you know constrained of uh trade, you know, that uh if you're putting a cap on uh on a payroll budget, um uh that you know there's legal arguments against it. But from a sporting point of view, it makes it very difficult coming back to baseball to ever see that uh a Pittsburgh Pirates or Kansas City Royals, you know, they're gonna have a hard time um winning a championship. So to get yourself into the final four in baseball now, if you're a small market team, uh not impossible, but really hard.

SPEAKER_01:

Have the Blue Jays ever had to pay the tax?

SPEAKER_02:

That's a great question, Bill. I honestly don't know. Um, I think so. I mean, in in payroll terms, uh they are among the larger spenders in baseball. So a classification of big market, small market teams, uh the blue jays would be kind of at the upper end of the middle of that, you know. So they they are um spenders in baseball, you know, compared to savers, I guess, in terms of payroll.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, there's probably an uh group of listeners out there who are saying, are they never gonna talk about curling? So that's I think we better switch gears before sure. We are but click off here. Apparently, uh it's all it's in all the newspapers that there's some gathering of athletes in Italy in a couple of weeks. What's that all about?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, the magnificent Olympic winter games, Bill. And gosh, it's uh it's seemed like it's been away forever, but yep, here it is, and we're on the cusp of it. I'm getting ready to go to Cortina. I'm super excited. And for our sport, curling, it is the pinnacle event, has been since it came back onto the program as a full sport in 1998, and unequivocally, uh the El Primo event in curling. So I can't wait.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember very clearly when and next week's episode is all gonna be all about I've actually done real research, Hans. Like actual research. I'm gonna talk about how curling uh became a full metal sport, what it takes for a sport to be even considered. So okay, I hope the listeners are going to look forward to that. But the one of the distinctions I draw is the difference between an Olympic sport and a discipline. Well, curling is an Olympic sport, and we have three disciplines. We have mixed doubles, we have men's, and we have women's. Now, on a personal note, I wish that the mixed part was just mixed curling as opposed to mixed doubles, but that's just me. But I understand completely why it has to be mixed doubles. There's very good reasons for it, and I think it's been a real shot in the arm across the world for curling. But as I indicated to you through email, I'm uh you and I will think about uh you know what what do you think's gonna happen uh with Olympic curling?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, you want to talk about results right out of the gate, Bill G. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, let's well, let's well, why don't we start with mixed doubles? And I feel a little bit differently than you. Uh, I love mixed doubles. I competed in it uh at worlds. Um, I loved it as a discipline immediately, precisely because it was different. And at Olympic level, I love it even more because what doubles does that mixed fours would not do is it opens the door for a smaller curling nation that can come up with two fantastic athletes to do what feels impossible, which is to qualify into the top 10 in the world to get themselves into an Olympic Winter Games. So if I look uh at this mixed doubles field, uh for me, the team in the field this year that fits that profile is Estonia. And first time Estonia will have ever competed in curling at Olympic Winter Games, it's fantastic and a really good team. Um so much so I'll make I'll make my first brave prediction. It might be more sentimental than with my head. I think um Harry Lil and Marie Kaldvi from Estonia uh could make the playoffs, and uh they they could uh they could grab a medal. That's my my brave prediction. Mixed doubles of the of all of the disciplines is the field that I think is the most even, and you can make an argument, a good argument for I think six or seven of the teams uh to be on the podium. Um the nature of mixed doubles is also unpredictable. So uh the athletes themselves will tell you that. It's like walking on a tightrope and uh with a crosswind. So you just never really have control. Saying that, um, class, class, class in the field. Um, I think it's hard to look past former world champions. So the USA, I think, has got a really strong opportunity with um uh Corey and Corey, uh, Dropkin and TC. I think they are um strong metal copper uh potential. And Bruce Mallard and uh Jen Dodds from Great Britain, um super disappointed not to win in Beijing. I like their chances in this event. But saying that, you've got Canada, you've got uh you know Brett Galant and uh Jocelyn Peterman, you've got the defending Olympic champions, Mozanner and Constantini uh from Italy, who have never lost a game of Olympic mixed doubles, you've got Magnus Nedrigott and uh Kristen Skazlian from Norway who have medaled in every Olympic mixed-doubles event. So gosh, you know, picking a winner is really hard. And uh for people that are saying, oh, let's just start watching the Olympics when uh the men's and the women's start, um, give your head a shake. You want to be watching this mixed-doubles event. It is going to be amazing. Yeah, the women. Um, women's a little more um uh um layered, I think, in terms of the field. Uh, there's more clear favorites in my mind. Um basically anybody that I've heard uh predicting uh victory in this event has gone with Rachel Homan, and I would have to do that too. You've got a defending world champion, um, strongest team, you know, um arguably ever. Um and so strong, uh strong favorites, certainly to medal and uh chance to uh get to the top of the podium, I think. Usual suspects, I think, are going to give uh Rachel's team a run. Uh Silvana Teranzoni uh from Switzerland, always strong. Team Gim from Korea, I think, is going to uh surprise teams with their um capability. Wang Ray from China uh played really well at worlds. Uh you've still got Anna Hasselborg from Sweden in the field, so and you've got teams in there that always manage to surprise, um, like Madeleine Dupont from uh from Denmark, Tad Peterson. And so you've you know it's it's it's a strong field, but yeah, I still think that it's hard to look past um Rachel Homan as the strong favorite in women's should be a good competition, but uh the challenge I think for Canadian teams is is performing strongly um outside of Canada. Rachel and her team showed that at the most recent women's worlds in Korea where they took the championship. So I think they've if there was ever any kind of doubt that they could win outside of Canada, that's gone. So I think uh they're strong favorites. Men's side is going to be um quite something, and uh I'm already anticipating uh the men's final because uh I get to call it, so that's going to be fantastic. For me, there's two teams in the field that feel like they're destined to be in the final, and that's Brad Jacobs of Canada and Bruce Mowitt from Great Britain. Two teams that are both fantastic at different stages of their career. Mauit's team you could argue has been slightly stronger, but when you look at what was that movie where they put the the aging astronauts to go and blow up an asteroid, you know, Space Cowboys or whatever it was. The uh if I think if I look at the Brad Jacobs team, it feels like, you know, the a team going out on uh on their last fantastic mission um that have still got all the chops. And uh it would not surprise me in the least to see the Canadians at the top of the podium. You know, there's other strong teams in that men's field. It'll be really interesting to see how Danny Kasper of the US goes. Um they're a bunch of 20-somethings that don't know that they shouldn't win um and have got a lot of game, so they could surprise. Uh Yannick Schwaller uh from Switzerland, always there, always strong. Um, they've played really well, won a slam recently. Then was Schwartz Bergman is one of my favorite shot makers ever. Um so it'll be really um fantastic to see how they perform. Home team from Italy, Joel Rotornis. Um, they uh can't look past them. So it'll be it'll be interesting, but uh it does feel like a uh a Mawit Jacobs final would not surprise me. And if it happened, I wouldn't want to predict who's gonna win it, but it would just be a fantastic game. We haven't even mentioned Nicholas Sadine. And uh with how strong uh Maut and Jacobs and some of the others have been this year, Nicholas and his team are there. They they are uh they're bringing the gold medal from Beijing around their necks. So you can't write them off either. So as it should be, the Olympic tournaments of all the disciplines, it's hard to get in, you know, only 10 um uh National Olympic committees in each of the disciplines. It's just hard to get in the field. So if you get in the field, you look out, you know, you could do some damage, and uh the curling is gonna be tremendous, like I have no doubt.

SPEAKER_01:

It's why they play the game.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely right. Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's go to that other sport, that ice hockey thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, you want to pick you want me to pick who's gonna win the hockey? Well, uh, it's it's now that you've got pros back in the field again for the first time, and I might get this wrong. Um, NHL pros were playing when I competed in the Olympics last time in Italy in 2006, and I'm not sure if that's the last time that there was a full contingent. Probably not. No, it's not true. They were in Vancouver too. Anyways, coming back. Who do I think is gonna win? Canada. Um, it's uh it's such a strong team, but it's gonna be a fantastic tournament. You know, you can uh you know, the Americans could uh do damage. Um Canada USA has turned. Into one of the great international hockey rivalries now. So um if and when they meet, uh but Sweden always great. Um so but but yeah, I s I think I'll I'd I'd be um surprised if the Canadians weren't in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_01:

I I think that it it's very interesting. We we've been getting messages from uh Milano Cartina about the facility of the the ice hockey arena, ice issue and a construction delay and that sort of thing. And I thought, well, it's interesting because curling uh traditionally has held the junior world championship on the or at the Olympic site a year out. So that was kind of their test event, and it was a year out. Why wouldn't hockey kind of do the same thing? Having a mate, you know, uh have the world championship on the Olympic surface. I was very curious about that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's uh it's always wouldn't say exciting, right? But uh I think it's one of the reasons that the IOC is gravitating more and more to temporary venues and reuse of existing venues when they're looking for cities that bid precisely to reduce the risk that a new facility uh isn't gonna be complete and ready. Saying that, you know, the uh the arena in Milan, I'm sure, is going to be fine. Um I remember myself um competing the World Men's Championship in 2005 in Victoria in an arena that was brand new and there was still you know a bit of construction dust in the air, but it worked out fine. And so it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. In about half an hour, I will be passing by on the way to the Victoria Curling Club. Hans, from your perspective from the from the media, are that do you anticipate anything different from your end of things when you get to Italy?

SPEAKER_02:

One thing that I am excited about is that um so I'll be doing commentary for the host broadcaster. Um and we're actually going to be at venue uh in Cortina at the what they're badging, the uh Cortina curling arena. And that is always um preferable for me than uh doing the broadcast from the International Broadcast Center, which uh has been the case in in other Olympic games. So being at the venue is is uh is tremendous. I'm gonna be really interested to see what has changed about Italian curling fans between Torino and uh Milano Cortina. Fair to say in 2006 the Italian curling fans were absolutely supporting their team, but really had no appreciation of the sport whatsoever. Um now coming into Cortina, one of their teams is the current Olympic champion and makes doubles, and so they've seen a little bit more curling uh over the last 20 years, and it'll be interesting what the atmosphere in the building is like, Bill. So I think that's the thing that I'm really excited about is uh the venue itself has got history. So um for those that haven't followed the curling arena in Cortina in 1956 when the Olympics were held, there was actually an outdoor arena, and uh that uh venue is um part of what is being um used for these Olympics. So the venue itself, they uh the town itself. I'll put my tourist hat on now. Uh Cortina d'Ampezzo. I mean, come on, it's in the Dolomites. These are some of the most beautiful mountains in the world, so just the vibe of the town is going to be cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Team Canada in 1956 happened to be the Kitchener Waterloo Dutchman from my hometown. And I remember very distinctly uh traveling down Highway 7, there was no 401 uh in a motorcade from Kitchener to Malton Airport, no Pearson, to see the team off. I thought, yeah, 1956. Okay. Thank you very much for doing this. And uh as I mentioned to you before we hit record, this will be part one of Bill and Hans uh looking forward to the Olympics, and uh we'll look forward to having you on uh when the the the snow has settled and the ice crystals have evaporated, and we'll find out exactly what happened and uh the if the Winter Olympics has indeed elevated sport again to uh an understanding among athletes that this can be a very peaceful world if people are of like minds.

SPEAKER_02:

Very well said, Bill. Um it it always seems to do that and achieve that, and I have no doubt this will happen this time as well. It's a wonderful time for us to focus on uh the good um in uh in humanity.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, obviously a big shout out to my friend Hans. Uh he is very articulate, very thoughtful when he speaks, and I hope he made you think a little bit about what you feel might happen in terms of uh the medals and how they're gonna be distributed in Milano Cortina. I think there may be some surprises because the Olympic Games, well, that's the big stage. As I indicated, next time we're going to take a little bit of an introspective look at the Olympics, uh how a sport becomes an Olympic sport, what you need for backing, and it might be different from country to country. And I know that we've talked a little bit about this in the mailbag segment an episode or two ago, and we touched on that today with my discussion with Hans. Well, wherever you are, especially if you are in the home area of southern Ontario, you buckle your chin straps and your muffs and pull your teeth down your tooth down because it's cold there. Hopefully thinking about baseball will help warm you up a little bit. So wherever you are, remember that great North American philosopher Charlie Brown. Don't focus too much on things that make you sad because there's so many things that make you happy. Until next time,